Anim8or Community

General Category => General Anim8or Forum => Topic started by: Owl on January 05, 2015, 09:45:44 pm

Title: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: Owl on January 05, 2015, 09:45:44 pm
This topic is a place for Newbies to get to know each other and some of the more experienced users. Ask your dumb questions here and hopeful many of the kind hearty fellow Anim8or users will chime in.
Declaration, this is a Chat room: No topic is off-topic as long as it is respectful and civil.
Thank You,
Owl

PS: refer back to "Where can I start?"  http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php/topic,5010.0.html  (http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php/topic,5010.0.html)for some good tutorials.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: Owl on January 05, 2015, 09:54:43 pm
Is there any documentation or tutorials on: Object/Axis ^O   

Also, I can't find the three coordinate systems choices ever doing anything. They seem like a necessary tool.
I'd like to move and move about the selection points.
Thank You.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: johnar on January 05, 2015, 10:23:47 pm
Hello Owl,
 Just to let you know, the manual is still the 1st place to look for most of the answers to your questions. (download, print, and put into a clearfile folder. Hardcopy is good)
 As you may be aware, V0.98 is still the latest full version, and a good place for newbies to get accustomed to the general outlay of Anim8ors usage.
 The recent builds are a gradual building up of Anim8or, where steve has opened it up to allow users to voice opinions, suggestions, etc on upgrades as they are added
 New functions in builds above V0.98 are an 'Open Work in Progress', and information concerning new functions will be found in the 'Ongoing Anim8or Development' forum.
  For anyone completely new to Anim8or, V.0.98 would be a good place to start, just to get the general feel of the different modes and capabilities within Anim8or.
 Once you're understanding how anim8or works, then you, or any newbie, will be able to make more sense of later additions.
 Re your question
Quote
Is there any documentation or tutorials on: Object/Axis ^O
, you'll find on page 2 of the manual, Basics -> page 2, Common button meanings.
 The 3rd button, under common button meanings, gives you the option to change the axis point of an object.  Click on that button, go to wireframe view, and you'll see the axis of the object(s).
 Click on the move tool and you can move the axis. Or rotate tool to rotate the axis.
 
Quote
I can't find the three coordinate systems choices ever doing anything. They seem like a necessary tool.
I'd like to move and move about the selection points.
  Not sure exactly what you're asking here, but for viewing in your workspace, familiarize yourself with the arc rotate tool. (in the manual, basics, page 5, arc rotate tool)(http://s6.postimg.org/4y98eizkt/grywink.gif)
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: kreator on January 06, 2015, 02:16:06 am
check out these items...

http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php/topic,4990.msg37399.html#msg37399
Title: Object/Axis ^O only works in WIREFRAME mode
Post by: Owl on January 06, 2015, 05:14:07 pm
Good advice johnar,
Once you told me that in order to use Object/Axis ^O I had to be in WIREFRAME mode ... it now works. Duh!
I did not get that interpretation from the manual.
This has been a consistent problem for me, without a mode-tree showing what features work in what functions and modes, I regularly hit dead ends where nothing works as it did before (because I was somewhere else in the software's GUI logic when it worked last time)
Thank you!
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: johnar on January 06, 2015, 05:57:52 pm
 You're welcome Owl
Quote
nothing works as it did before (because I was somewhere else in the software's GUI logic when it worked last time)
While i'm here, i'd like to just clarify something, to make sure we're on the same page.
 Sorry if this seems obvious, but it may help.
  Note that there are 4 main modes in Anim8or. Object - Figure - Sequence - and Scene, all accessable through top tool bar button - mode
 mode -> object actually has 2 modes of its own. (actually 4, but dealing with 2 here)
 object mode -
(http://s29.postimg.org/6nnnt7037/Objectmode.jpg), and then
 Object Edit Mode -
(http://s10.postimg.org/qaggqwcet/Object_Editmode.jpg)
   In the manual, chapter 3, under Object Editor Basics, the first mode discussed is the object mode
(http://s29.postimg.org/6nnnt7037/Objectmode.jpg)
 Then, Chapter 4, is the Object Editor Point Editor - which is an object Editor mode(http://s10.postimg.org/qaggqwcet/Object_Editmode.jpg)
  Check out the manual with the understanding that paticular functions are available depending on which object mode you are in.
 Hope that has possibly clarrified, a little, the model creation and model manipulation modes in Anim8or.
  Keep the manual close, sometimes you need to read something a few times over before it becomes clear.
 If, after you've tried the manual, something remains unclear, then ask. We're basically a friendly lot here, and happy to help. (http://s6.postimg.org/4y98eizkt/grywink.gif)
 
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: Owl on January 06, 2015, 07:39:26 pm
Please take a look at this:
another failure-to-cap mode for extrusion
http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php/topic,5010.msg37310.html#msg37310

If I extrude a N-Gon 20 times it will fail at least once, some times fail 10 times or more and sometimes fail on the first try.
Thank You,
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: johnar on January 06, 2015, 11:29:41 pm
Quote
If I extrude a N-Gon 20 times it will fail at least once, some times fail 10 times or more and sometimes fail on the first try.
Sorry to say, i've just extruded 20 N-gons and not had one fail to cap.
I've read all 7 and a bit pages of your thread.
 A lot of good, helpfull advice. The answer is probably in there, but you may need to read carefully over it some more until you see it.
A lot of the replies and explanations you've had are from users more experienced in what you're talking about than i am. So theres nothing more i can really say on the technical or practical side of what you're asking.

 But i do have an idea regarding the problems you're having with extruding capped N-gons.
 
 If this is still the case for you,  then grab your next successfull polygon extrusion and mirror it.
 Select object -> build -> mirror image
This idea could:
a) Supply you with an endless amount of required objects
b) allow you to move on with your adventure of discovering the wonderfull world of 3D modelling and Animation with Anim8or. (http://s8.postimg.org/j64xwcx9d/Big_Grin_Gry.gif)

 Have you made the eggplant yet?
http://www.anim8or.com/learn/tutorials/index.html
 It does begin with the extrusion of a pentagon, but once you've got that, if you move slowly and carefully through the tutorial, you'll learn to use some new and very helpfull modelling tools.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Animation
Post by: Owl on January 07, 2015, 12:44:29 pm
Ok, making some progress ... So I animate object1 along a path. It reaches object2 and now I want the object2 to be rigidly attached to the object1 and finish animating object1 with Object2 attached.
Read everything and tried for an hour. Help would be most welcome.
Thank You.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: johnar on January 07, 2015, 04:15:02 pm
Quote
It reaches object2 and now I want the object2 to be rigidly attached to the object1 and finish animating object1 with Object2 attached.

 What do you mean by 'rigidly attach' to object 2.?
 More info about what you're planning would be helpfull.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: thecolclough on January 07, 2015, 04:30:31 pm
owl - if you mean what i think you mean, then the simplest solution is (believe it or not...) to have 2 copies of object2 in your scene: the first one is the one that sits in the starting location before object1 arrives, and the second should be set as a child of object1 so that it will be carried around wherever object1 goes; use Visibility keyframes on the two copies to instantaneously swap between them, so that it appears as if there is only 1 of the item in the scene and object1 collects it en route.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: Owl on January 07, 2015, 04:34:48 pm
By 'rigidly attach' to object 2', I mean move as if they were one object, like welded or screwed together.
The idea is that a pallet is brought in to the scene, a shoe box is brought into the scene and placed on the pallet, the pallet then moves away together with the box. The box is sitting and not moving on the pallet.
Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: Owl on January 07, 2015, 04:45:40 pm
Ok I was kinda doing that. What you offer is an important difference:
I think you are suggesting ... Have object1 and object2 as separate elements and object1 attached to object2 as a separate element we will call object3.
Object 3 is a child to object 1 and is at first not visible. On the frame after object2 is attached to object1, the visibility of the object1, object2 and object3 is logically-inverted. Right?
Thank You.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: Raxx on January 07, 2015, 05:12:43 pm
Keyframed parenting is a feature request and hasn't been implemented yet. However, if you aren't afraid to try it, an alternate solution is to use ASL (http://anim8or.com/scripts/spec/index.html) to attach one object to another in the Scene editor, and change at specific frames.

ASL (http://anim8or.com/scripts/spec/index.html) is a fairly new and experimental feature, so it's not very much documented yet, especially for the scene editor. It's fairly powerful though. Below is an animation I made in 20 minutes using a few lines of code and basic scene setup. The sphere is the child and changes parents from the cube to the cone.


ASL Snippet
  1. /* Declaring variables */
  2. point3 $parent1Loc, $parent2Loc;
  3.  
  4. /* Grab the parent positions */
  5. $parent1Loc = GetAttributePoint3("eobject02", "position");
  6. $parent2Loc = GetAttributePoint3("eobject03", "position");
  7.  
  8. /* If we're in frames 0 - 24, use parent01 position plus 100 units on the Y axis*/
  9. if (frame >= 0 && frame <= 24)
  10. $position = $parent1Loc + (0,50,0);
  11. else /* Switch to parent02 */
  12. $position = $parent2Loc + (0,50,0);
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on January 07, 2015, 07:12:22 pm
Great solution Raxx.  Scene-mode scripting = POWER!!

Owl, re your earlier post about visibility switching, it is not possible to 'attach' or 'detach' elements using keyframes (other than through a script like Raxx's).  Parent/child relationships are set up initially and are retained throughout an animation.  thecolclough's solution is to bring three elements into your scene: The pallet (element = Pallet), plus two separate copies of your shoebox (elements Shoebox1 and Shoebox2).  Shoebox1 is made a child of Pallet and is located (in all frames) in its final position relative to the pallet, ie sitting on it, and it's visibility is initially set to not visible.  The Pallet element is animated as required, and the invisible Shoebox1 moves with it.

Shoebox2 is a free element with no parent/child relationship.  Initially visible, it is animated to be placed on the pallet, it's final position corresponding exactly with the location of Shoebox1.  At whatever frame both shoebox elements are co-located, the visibility of each is switched, so Shoebox1 becomes visible and Shoebox2 becomes invisible.  Shoebox2 can then remain stationary and invisible, while Shoebox1 moves away with the pallet.  If the keyframing and animation is done correctly the viewer will perceive both shoebox elements as a single object moving through the scene.

Personally, I prefer the script solution for its elegance, however visibility-switching can be a very useful solution to a number of animation challenges.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - visibility switching
Post by: Owl on January 07, 2015, 09:47:22 pm
Visibility switching worked well: All the elements were in perfect registration because they all belonged to the same parent, started on top of each other and were switch on/off at the right times.
Thank you for your help.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: thecolclough on January 08, 2015, 07:22:57 am
Quote from: Owl on January 07, 2015, 04:45:40 pm
Right?
right.

Quote from: Owl on January 07, 2015, 04:45:40 pm
Thank You.
you're welcome :)
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Nudge
Post by: Owl on January 08, 2015, 08:30:30 am
How do you nudge the placement of an element/object when the mouse movements are too course?
Are there keys that will nudge one pixel each push?
Thank You
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on January 08, 2015, 08:38:04 am
In Object mode you can use the cursor keys for small increments, but not in Scene mode.  Best way for accurate positioning in Scene mode is double-click the element and directly edit the Location coordinates.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: Owl on January 08, 2015, 09:22:53 am
Thank You
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: kreator on January 08, 2015, 11:33:31 am
Quote
In Object mode you can use the cursor keys for small increments, but not in Scene mode.

Something I asked for in the Feature Request Thread http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php/topic,4647.0.html

Remap Arrow Keys: So that they are used to tweak position/orientation/scale like in the other editors. Use the Function Keys or some other set like , and . or [ and ] to move along the timeline. (kreator)
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Fames per second
Post by: Owl on January 08, 2015, 08:36:42 pm
Anyway to increase the resolution to reduce the jerkiness of a scene (movie). In other words, make a scene twice as long by adding more frames so the moment is smoother?
Thank You
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on January 09, 2015, 02:35:06 am
Not really, no.  The best course of action is to plan your animation reasonably thoroughly before keyframing, with particular attention paid to timing.  One technique that can be beneficial is to film (with a video camera, iPhone, whatever) yourself moving placeholder objects at the speed you want them to move.  Once loaded in a video editor this can be used as a sort of master reference for your animation.  Most people underestimate the number of frames required for an animation to look un-rushed, and consequently reduce the frame rate to slow things down.  Anything below about 15fps generally looks jerky, I don't go below 24fps.

If you have not created many keyframes you could extend the total frames and manually correct the animation.  Otherwise your best course of action would be to create a new Scene (note: this is one of the best things about Anim8or, being able to create multiple Scenes in a single project using the same collection of Objects).

NOTE: If you are keen and up to the task, you could edit the .an8 file in a text editor.  In the Scene section you could increase the number of frames by a multiplication factor (eg. 2 to double the length of the animation) and double the frame number for all elements and controllers ('pointkey', 'qkey' etc.).  Potentially tedious, but no more so than manually correcting the Scene (TBH it could probably be done in Excel with a bit of manipulation and formula building).  I have not done this myself so cannot warn against any potential pitfalls... definitely work on a copy, not the original ;)
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: johnar on January 09, 2015, 03:45:15 am
 For interest sake, you can insert extra frames between keys in the timetrack. May not accomplish properly what you're trying to fix, but interesting to play with.
 To insert or delete frames in scene mode, select an empty frame, like this:
(http://s4.postimg.org/qjsybafx9/1frame.jpg)
 and go Edit -> frames -> insert selected frames. That will insert 1 frame.
 To insert multple frames, click on 1 empty frame, hold shift and click on another frame further along, which will select the 1st and last selected frames, and those inbetween, like this:
(http://s3.postimg.org/yjwwjd5gz/Multiframes.jpg)
 Good for simple inserting xtra frames. (and deleting selected frames too)
 
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: Owl on January 09, 2015, 07:48:21 am
Thank You
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Morph
Post by: Owl on January 10, 2015, 03:21:03 pm
Missing something on morph. Following the manual ... but what comes next. Where do I enter the usual parameters of how many frames should the morph take?
Thank You
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: RudySchneider on January 10, 2015, 05:14:38 pm
Like anything else you animate in Anim8or, just key-in the frames where you want the morph(s) to appear or disappear.  Sample file attached.

By the way, did you know you can apply a "negative" morph, or a value of greater than 1?
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Morph
Post by: Owl on January 10, 2015, 06:31:08 pm
Got it! The one thing to add, to make it more clear to a Newbie is after you add a keyframe by selecting a frame and double clicking where you want to add-keyframe .... Then before you close that pop-up box, input a "value".
Thank You!
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Morph
Post by: Owl on January 11, 2015, 12:02:13 am
Can someone suggest how to animate (morph?) a sheet of thin-flexible material (like paper) being folded over into a loose fold?
Thank You -
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: johnar on January 11, 2015, 12:41:31 am
Quote
a sheet of thin-flexible material (like paper) being folded over into a loose fold?
This could possibly be better accomplished by using bones. (figure mode), if you're keen to give that a try.
  Morphs are absolutely awesome for a lot of stuff, but a possible problem with 'folding a piece of paper' using morph targets is that they tend to take the straightest line, so getting the 'arc' effect when folding something over won't always work out.
 Bones, however, arc nicely, and more perfectly suited to what you're suggesting.
 When you make your 'thin plastic sheet', remember to allow enough points for the bones to hold on to. ie: use 'weights' rather than influences when given the option, and understand that when 'painting weights' in figure mode, its the points that get attached to the selected bone.
 Check out the manual for basics of animating in figure mode. (chapter 5. Figure editor)
 Although mostly dealing with 'influences', there is a short section on painting weights at the end of the chapter, and it does explain the 'gist' of how bones are used to animate objects.
 Good luck, sounds like you're learning some stuff. I would suggest to 'give bones a go', and let us know how things are working out. :)
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Folding
Post by: Owl on January 11, 2015, 08:58:17 am
The problem is to get the smooth natural animation of folding over say a piece of paper, where it starts flat and forms a natural curve. Would bones do that?

Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: johnar on January 11, 2015, 03:50:15 pm
(http://s17.postimg.org/uilbc42wf/fold1.gif)

 You can use morphs and bones at the same time. Above is bones only, but morphs could also be added to do things like 'have the breeze created to blow/curve the edge slightly as it closes, .
(http://s18.postimg.org/z0cefd321/fold2.gif)
 Could be improved, but hopefully you get the idea.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: Owl on January 11, 2015, 05:30:43 pm
You are right. much nicer. I'm missing something on Morph. I can duplicate RudySchneider's Morph example. But we need an endpoint image as a template to know where to drag the points to. 
How did you get the curves in the paper as your example shows?
Thank You.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: johnar on January 11, 2015, 09:27:13 pm
 I've attached the an8 file (zip) at the bottom.
Front view -> object edit mode -> wireframe view
 Drag selected the last 4 rows of points and moved downwards, (Y), incrementally, so that the 1st outside edge was the lowest, 2nd edge slightly higher and so on, as you'll see in the file. (build -> morph targets -> fold
 Then, check out the keyframes in scene mode.
 Also, check out the figure in fig mode
 Hopefully that will all make some sense.
  I name my morphs slightly differently than RudySchneider, but obviously, either way will work.
 The way i set my morphs is probably best explained by this old vid.

Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: captaindrewi on January 12, 2015, 09:05:56 am
hi johnar took a look at your elegant solution to folding paper.All these years using anim8or and i never realised i didn't necessarily need to create and import a sequence to make a boned figure animate.  :)
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: RudySchneider on January 12, 2015, 09:47:28 am
Quote from: Owl on January 11, 2015, 05:30:43 pm
...How did you get the curves in the paper as your example shows?

Make sure your paper has enough divisions, and use a "string" of bones.  Consider your fingers.  They don't simply fold flat; they "roll" closed into a fist because each joint adds another bend to the sequence.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: Owl on January 12, 2015, 10:52:03 am
Quote from: johnar on January 11, 2015, 09:27:13 pm
.... Drag selected the last 4 rows of points and moved downwards, (Y), incrementally, so that the 1st outside edge was the lowest, 2nd edge slightly higher and so on, ....
.... best explained by this old vid.
 ... youtube ...

WOW Johnar, the video was IMPRESSIVE! Even though I though I knew what to do, there were a lot of details here, as they say:)- "picture worth 1024 (2^10) words".

You moved all the points by eye. Is there a way to create a template or underlay of the desired final morph and drag the points to that? Then remove the template.

Thank You.
Title: Re: Where can I start? II - Chat Room
Post by: johnar on January 12, 2015, 04:11:57 pm
 I
Quote
s there a way to create a template or underlay of the desired final morph and drag the points to that? Then remove the template.
That would be 'reference images'.
 Object mode -> build -> reference image. (http://s6.postimg.org/4y98eizkt/grywink.gif)

RudySchneider Happy new year. Long time no hear from. Yip, the method you describe is another effective way to 'bend' things. Take note Owl. (http://s6.postimg.org/4y98eizkt/grywink.gif)

captaindrewi Its funny how we find a way to do something, then stick with that until one day, out of the blue, find something that makes us re-evaluate how we've been doing it till then.
 I went straight from 'total computer newbie' to Anim8or, and spent the first couple of years 'dragging anim8or out to fill my screen'. Then one day a friend said to me 'just double click in the blue area along the top'.  Lol.  Man, did i feel silly, but then, what a great day that was. (http://s6.postimg.org/p4cqdev8d/grysmile.gif)