Anim8or Community

General Category => General Anim8or Forum => Topic started by: 3DUser57 on November 12, 2014, 02:45:16 pm

Title: Where can I start?
Post by: 3DUser57 on November 12, 2014, 02:45:16 pm: Now that I have Anim8or downloaded & installed, where do I go from here? I never have used this program before!
Just wondering can somebody help me?
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on November 12, 2014, 03:17:07 pm: Try some tutorials, one here i wrote should get you in the swing of it... http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php/topic,4742.msg34422.html#msg34422

Get the manual and read it http://www.anim8or.com/learn/manual/index.html
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: neirao on November 13, 2014, 02:19:01 pm: Welcome to Anim8or :)
try too see some tutoriais in youtube: search by ANIM8OR TUTORIAL

:)
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on November 13, 2014, 09:23:49 pm: Where to start? With an idea! Anim8or is a means to an end, the end is up to you. A tip: Think big. Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like crazy!

What I'm trying to say is have a think about what you'd like to create (still shot, game element, animation, Star Wars episode 8 ), and go about creating it with Anim8or. To do that you'll need to know the basics, so spend some quality time with the manual (it's very, very short for a system manual) and if you feel inclined run through some of the tutorials. Then experiment, play, try, fail, try again, succeed, learn, develop, improve, all of which is the fun part. While becoming awesome at Anim8or-fu, if you have any questions try searching the forum first (because most likely someone will have had the same question at some time) and if no luck, post a thread.

Most importantly: enjoy the process. Welcome, and good Anim8ing!
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: cooldude234 on November 15, 2014, 12:43:54 am: Quote from: ENSONIQ5 on November 13, 2014, 09:23:49 pm
A tip: Think big. Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like crazy!
UNLESS ITS A COMMERCIAL PROJECT!
Then do the opposite, the very exact opposite!
Title: I have question????
Post by: 3DUser57 on November 17, 2014, 11:29:29 am: How would I add color to any object, like a ball for instant? I have searched on Anim8or screen but I cannot find a icon the represent such a function, Please help?
Title: Re: I have question????
Post by: captaindrewi on November 17, 2014, 11:37:52 am: click four balls symbol ,then double click new.in the box that appears,which will spark up the material properties dialog box, play around with that and finally select your object then hit apply.
Title: Re: I have question????
Post by: kreator on November 17, 2014, 01:09:23 pm: AS Drewi says Look for the four Little black spheres in the top graphic bar this is where you can find the materials. You can also use the shortcut key strokes Ctrl/Shift/m together.

You normally double click the "New"slot for the material and the material editor opens up, you either make your own using the colour palette, or, if you click the texture tab in this editor and load jpg, 24bit bmp or gifs, choose the Image you want by clicking the diffuse and select the image. See my screenshot for a graphics representation.

NOTE: If you are using any new development copy of anim8or you can now use .png files as well.
Title: Re: I have question????
Post by: 3DUser57 on November 17, 2014, 02:29:32 pm: Thanks for your help everyone, now I do understand!
Title: Re: I have question????
Post by: lppena on November 18, 2014, 03:42:17 am: Quote from: 3DUser57 on November 17, 2014, 02:29:32 pm
Thanks for your help everyone, now I do understand!

I know what you mean. I think the default color is like gray. You can also add a texture file if you want.
Title: Re: I have question????
Post by: Arik_the_Red on November 19, 2014, 01:01:40 pm: oooo... didn't know about the png development! Cool! Thanks, Steve! (aid kreator, for pointing it out here)
Title: I have another question??
Post by: 3DUser57 on November 21, 2014, 12:58:17 pm: Where can I find some textures file to download for free?? Is it possible to create my own textures? How can that be accomplished?
Title: I have some problems ......
Post by: 3DUser57 on November 21, 2014, 03:41:07 pm: For some reason, I can't select any points or face to change shapes or something while in the object editing mode, what am I doing wrong?? Is there a way to correct this, OR to set anim8or to a default settings? I'm not sure if I could explain this more clearly enought for anyone to understand my problem?Any help is appreciated.

3DUser57,
Richard West
Title: Re: I know I have asked this question before.....
Post by: captaindrewi on November 21, 2014, 04:07:53 pm: any image file can be used as a texture.
yes you can use your own textures created in any art package.
paint net is a free art package.
google free textures google free art progs.
http://www.cgtextures.com/
Title: Re: I have some problems ......
Post by: captaindrewi on November 21, 2014, 04:10:44 pm: i suspect you are trying to work with whats called a 'parametric mesh'.
highlight this object and then go to build,convert to mesh.then you should be able to play about with it a little more.
Title: Re: I know I have asked this question before.....
Post by: thecolclough on November 21, 2014, 05:17:11 pm: you can also use .jpg photos straight from your camera, or do more advanced image manipulation in programs like Photoshop or the GIMP (www.gimp.org) to fine-tune textures to your requirements.
Title: Re: I know I have asked this question before.....
Post by: lppena on November 23, 2014, 04:57:36 am: GIMP is also another free paint program. As I recall it has a plugin for creating textures. Check the GIMP forum for help on using it.
Title: Re: I have some problems ......
Post by: kreator on November 23, 2014, 11:05:06 am: How do I add points to create a model?

In Order to do this, you must first be in Object/Point Edit Mode Keystroke shift/p

Also make sure that you have set your GUI configuration Correctly This can be found in the menubar under File/Configure GUI...
Ensure that Smooth Outline and Smooth Points are checked.

When Your are ready to begin First hold down the shift key and click the left mouse button to create a point, then immediately release the Shift key, now drag and click again for your next point. If you keep holding down the shift key after making the first point you will just make additional copies of an object. So bear this in mind.

It does take some getting used to. Here is a short Tut courtesy RAXX

(http://anim8orworld.com/TUTS/createFace.gif)
Title: Re: I have some problems ......
Post by: neirao on November 23, 2014, 11:19:24 am: haha, cool animated tutorial Kreator!
Title: I have another question??
Post by: 3DUser57 on November 27, 2014, 11:56:38 am: I'm right in the middle of doing a eggplant tutorial, & my question is how do I make an image smaller while in the front view (single view only), in order to bend the trunk, & also to finish the project?
Title: Re: I have another question??
Post by: Raxx on November 27, 2014, 12:17:28 pm: 3DUser57, please use meaningful titles when you start a new thread instead of "I Have another question?" or "I know I have asked this question before". For example, with your last question, you could have titled it "How do I make my image smaller". Otherwise, you can keep all your questions in a general thread for yourself--I merged your...err...five topics together.

You should use the manual and the search function of this forum before asking very basic questions such as these. You should read the manual in its entirety--it might help you with your terminology as well, to better help us understand you.

As for your eggplant tutorial, I'm assuming you're talking about zooming in and out of the workspace. The best way to do this is via the Arc Rotate tool (hold alt or press Ctrl+R), and then middle-click and drag to zoom in and out. Or you can press F to automatically zoom and pan the view so that it frames everything. This is all in the manual.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: 3DUser57 on November 27, 2014, 12:56:39 pm: Sorry for asking so many questions, perhaps I should read the manual & do some experimentation along the way!
Title: Re: Where can I start? animation
Post by: Owl on November 28, 2014, 06:22:09 am: Hello All,
Newbie here too. I have spent several hours on Anim8or and understand lots. (Have lots of CAD, 3D drawing and animation experience. Went through many tutorial links. Animated some bones .... I can change the lights and camera on keyframes. BUT Can't figure out how to do scale and displacement animation. ie Just want to animate the movement of some object around a floor along a path. What am I missing please.
Thank You
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on November 28, 2014, 06:44:35 pm: Owl: Fairly old now but my attempts at tutorials for animating, way back some years ago Using 0.97D. use a target as your path and child your object to the target.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on November 29, 2014, 02:31:09 am: Some more starter Tuts for you

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Anim8orWorld/
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on November 29, 2014, 10:25:54 am: Kreator, great tutorials!
The problem I am having is not knowing where I am. I will go through all the documentation and all the drop down menus and can't find a menu I had just a short while ago. In other words there are modes that are turned on that reconfigure what and how the mouse and UI react. For example: "Environment Settings"
I found it once but for the life of me can't find again. In other words different paths change your working tools and unless you know where you are in the path you are stuck.

Using "Environment Settings" ONLY as an example: I believe this should be listed in the documentation or examples with all the settings necessary to find and use it such as:
"Environment Settings"
MODE>Scene
OPTIONS>??
VIEW>??
BUILD>?? etc

Then UI buttons such as:
SCENE: Edit or View
ENABLE: x,y or z
VIEW: zoom, rotate or view
SHOW: ....
ANIMATE: ...

It ALSO would be useful if the software UI included a note tucked in some corner as to where it is in the decision tree of modes, functions and features that are enabled.

I acknowledge that there is great diversity in people’s working styles and realize that different people have different ways of understanding. For example even thought I know most of the hidden details of Windows OS and of my state of the art smart Android phone, I find Apple products hard to use.

Is there any hope for me with Anim8or? ??? (Which is very impressive otherwise)
Thank You,
Owl
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on November 29, 2014, 11:29:39 am: Owl:

There are Four Modes, Object, Figure, Sequence and Scene,

If you go to the options menu You can turn on Tool Tips and whenever you hover over an icon its function will be displayed in the bottom left of the screen.

Environment is in Scene mode and relates only to the scene you will not have it in any of the other modes

I would concentrate on one section at a time, Object mode is the one you should master first, make a few models etc then when you have them saved out, progress to scene mode as you will no doubt want to animate them.

This is where Build comes into play. You must Build the scene with objects, lights cameras etc

Keep reading the manual ( make a hard copy of it to refer to )

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Anim8orWorld/
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Raxx on November 29, 2014, 11:31:00 am: On a side note, Owl, learning and retaining how to use software is part of the ball game. You can't just skip it, especially for production tools. It's a simple matter of coming to an understanding of what you're using and where to look based on what they do--which will come through practice and an actual effort to learn to use Anim8or. Anim8or isn't a super difficult maze or confounding puzzle, it'll click after a while of working with it, don't worry :)
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on November 29, 2014, 01:19:43 pm: Raxx and Kreator,
Thank you very much for your comments. We don't know each other and I am just a geek, but please take my word ... I know and have done all that you suggested and MUCH more 20 hours or so ago. I am highly skilled at lots of things (especially 3D), it's just different people have different ways of understanding.
Back on topic:
Here I am in Scene mode again. I have made: models, animated bones, animated camera, textured surfaces, looked at every hover-over, menu and sub menu and finally found it, again.

So after a lot of effort, I found the information I was asking about: "Environment Settings" under Scene>Properties (labeled "Scene Parameters")>Environment .

Using "Environment Settings" ONLY as an example. I believe information like above should be listed in the documentation or examples with all the settings necessary to find and use it. I think a UI tree is a very useful part of documentation for who people who think like me.
Thank You for your help.
Owl
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: thecolclough on November 29, 2014, 01:47:08 pm: Owl - not sure which build of Anim8or you're using, but it sounds like you might have one of the latest development previews. There have been some changes to the menu structure in recent development builds, including moving the 'Environment Settings' menu; the documentation only covers the official v0.98 build (i think) and will not reflect these recent changes to the menus. That might be a contributing factor to your difficulties!
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on November 29, 2014, 03:22:42 pm: thecolclough has a point. If you are using anything above 0.98 then the menus WILL be different ..... looks like a manual re-write will need to be done at some point
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: lppena on November 30, 2014, 03:58:37 am: Quote from: 3DUser57 on November 17, 2014, 11:29:29 am
How would I add color to any object, like a ball for instant? I have searched on Anim8or screen but I cannot find a icon the represent such a function, Please help?

Your best bet is to work with the user manual in conjunction with Anim8or itself. Learn how to edit simple primitive objects as editing geometry is a major part of learning modeling software like Anim8or. I made the big mistake of not reading the manual and soon got lost. Anim8or is pretty well document, and you can also do forum keyword based searches as well. Leroy.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on November 30, 2014, 07:54:40 am: Hi guys ... respectfully suggest the TWO manuals (one PDF and one HTML) are 1) different 2) don't correspond well to the stable or current Beta version and 3) don't work for me because they don't deal with MODES and Functions.
Got a lot of hours guys with dead ends in Anim8or where it doesn't work as expected (for me).

It will be more useful of your time I think if I just post such problems, and leave it as: different people have different ways of understanding.
Thank You,
Owl
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on November 30, 2014, 04:44:09 pm: You will be happy to know, this is a friend of mine, who has very little 3D animation experience and this is what he did in less than time than I have spent.

.... different people have different ways of understanding.
I spent way too much time reading and searching, he just dived in and started hacking.
Thank You
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 15, 2014, 10:17:58 pm: Can't draw a pallet. No matter what I try, I can't get the bottom boards, the ones with the cutouts to have caps.
Can someone please help?
Thank You
Owl
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 16, 2014, 01:06:58 am: Be in Object mode, Points selected [Keystroke p]

1: Cut the runners four times.[Keystroke Shift/c]
1a: Faces selected
2: Inset the four resulting faces.
3: On each inset back and front. pick front and back face.
4: Press the = key to bridge those faces.

You can either do this for each individual Runner, or Hide all the other boards to perform the above operations
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: captaindrewi on December 16, 2014, 06:35:12 am: if you are still puzzled i hope this helps.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 16, 2014, 06:38:07 am: Quote from: kreator on December 16, 2014, 01:06:58 am
Be in Object mode, ...

Thank you for you help!

I understand what you wrote but nothing works as I expect it.
How do I start?
1) I assume you mean draw a runner as a rectangle 36"x4"x2". Only know three possible ways to do that:
1.1) Start with a cube and scale one dimension.
1.1.1) Select and Every other function works on it: select, move, rotate, scale, straight path and curved path ... BUT NOT Non-Uniform scale, it doesn't work.
1.1.2) If I hold SHIFT down Non-Uniform scale works (that took a long time to stumble on, because once I have got it to work , it works every time. WHATS happening, that not mode or a function ... is it a modifier of that object?
1.1.3) Try BUILD>Convert to mesh, same problem as 1.1.2)
1.2) Start with an N-gon that is set to 4 and extrude it.
1.2.1) Using knife cut the notches, select and use Points to drag. Works, but the extrusion has error on its face.
1.3) Start with straight paths draw the entire profile including the cutouts needed for the fork truck to pick it up. (This would be my preferred way with my engineering background)
1.3.1) Extrudes ok, but can't get caps to go on.??

What do you think?
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: captaindrewi on December 16, 2014, 07:08:54 am: :)
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 16, 2014, 01:06:16 pm: USE 0.98 Version of Anim8or ... Do Not use a Development version of anim8or for this[/color
]

In object MODE which is the default mode find the cube or use the keystroke Shift c Drag out a cube roughly to the proportions of the section you want:

(http://www.anim8orworld.esy.es/Pic1.png)

You now need to add some divisions to the cube, so double click on the cube and the cube editor appears, if you want four holes in the section follow the screenshot and enter the values shown:

(http://www.anim8orworld.esy.es/Pic2.png)

As this is a parametric shape (The Bounding box is coloured Yellow) you have to convert it to a mesh(which has a White Bounding box) To do this Go up to the menu bar and find Build/convert to mesh.

(http://www.anim8orworld.esy.es/Pic3.png)

We want to Now be in Object/Point Edit Mode which is Shift p on the keyboard then we are going to adjust all the faces, so you require face select active. Press shift p on the keyboard. We also need the front and back faces selected, Look at the Pics and also the highlighted tools in those screenshots)

(http://www.anim8orworld.esy.es/Pic4.png)

We can now inset those faces just use the inset tool, shift i on the keyboard until you are satisfied with their dimensions.

(http://www.anim8orworld.esy.es/Pic5.png)
(http://www.anim8orworld.esy.es/Pic6.png)
(http://www.anim8orworld.esy.es/Pic7.png)

Click in the vacant workspace to turn off the faces then use the select tool to highlight the front and back faces of one section, then hit the = key and you will have an enclosed hole through the section.

(http://www.anim8orworld.esy.es/Pic8.png)
(http://www.anim8orworld.esy.es/Pic9.png)

Do this for the other three sections and it should look like this

(http://www.anim8orworld.esy.es/Pic10.png)
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: captaindrewi on December 16, 2014, 01:31:16 pm: I was thinking Owl meant the pieces of wood with cut outs,the ones labelled runner in his diagram?
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 16, 2014, 02:15:18 pm: Drew: Having re-read the post, I dunno what caps are on a pallet! I thought he mean`t holes for the forklift....In fact I think the Picture is just an illustration from the Web? Without an Anim8or WIP I can`t see what Owl is trying to acheive , a pallet can be made very easily....perhaps a full tutorial for uninitiated users.

EDIT : 5 minute pallet model attached
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 16, 2014, 04:54:09 pm: Thank you MUCH Guys for your help. Spent about 10 hours on that, should have asked for help sooner.

Is this right .... The missing piece of the puzzle is that you need to use the "Knot Editor">"Knot parameter">close, to close a "Path" if one expects to have the build>extrusion put "caps on? Otherwise the extrusion has no "caps".

After an hour trying, can't find but one reference to "Knot Editor" and not for this reason. Also the Knot Editor seems to only have a "close" choice in version .98.
The documentation doesn't mention "close" only mentions "corner". This is one reason I use 0.98a sometimes it better fit the documentation in parts.

Now I want to wrap some wood grain around the boards.
Wood grain samples ( https://www.google.com/search?q=wood+grain&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ )
Can you do that in 5 minutes? (please)
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 17, 2014, 02:48:51 am: there you go
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 17, 2014, 06:27:47 am: Thank You - Now I have to figure out what you did so I can wrap a plank in an image.
Seems like all I needed to do was:
1) Ungroup the object.
2) Select everything
3) Select the materials icon (4 balls)
4) Select and load the image under "diffuse" (not sure why that one, but others seem to be doing that)
5) "Close" and "apply"
Worked!!
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 17, 2014, 08:24:20 am: Haven't played your file, but most common cause of ends not capping in an extrude is if the spline being extruded is not closed. When drawing the spline, don't try to close the spline by clicking the last point over the first. Instead, once the final point has been entered and all that's missing is the final line that is needed to close the spline, double-click anywhere on the spline to open the Path Editor. Select 'Closed', untick 'Extendable' and click OK and the gap between the first and last points will be closed with a line. Extrude it (Z axis if working in front view) with end caps selected and everything should be fine.

The end caps are generally triangulated which isn't suitable for subdivision so some manual re-working of the mesh is often required, but that's probably not critical at this stage in your Anim8or journey.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 17, 2014, 09:35:02 am: Thank you for your thoughts. I believe the second object in the video does all you said.
I also have been leaving a big gap between the last two points so I can verify that the close command actually closed it.
Have spent several hours trying to find the pattern, to no avail
Thank You.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 17, 2014, 12:32:03 pm: Re: Your flv file,Your extruding in the wrong direction. Thats why you are having trouble getting caps, for Front view, if you try it in the Z direction you should have no trouble.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 17, 2014, 01:47:04 pm: Hi kreator,
Please look at my screen capture again. You are right about the first time, firsr object. I thought by doing this object first that this was one of the ways to get it to mess up the second time, where I choose "Z" axis (...yes?). But I have had it work or not work without being able to figure the pattern.
Do you see a problem with the way I extruded the second object?
Thank You.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: captaindrewi on December 17, 2014, 02:06:03 pm: Could it be that there are a few versions of 0.98.
and therein lies the peculiarity OWL is experiencing.
Mine is 2013
and i have just looked at anim8or main download page where the latest is 2014.
what edition have you got OWL?
The latest version Anim8or, v0.98 dated January 23, 2014 is available here: animv098.zip. It is identical to the original release dated November 30, 2014 with a fix for an spline extrusion/filling bug.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 17, 2014, 02:22:25 pm: My version says:
"Version 0.98
23-Jan-14"
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 17, 2014, 02:57:14 pm: Hmmm, mine says 20th Nov 2013

I would hazard a guess and say you have a development copy!

Heres the link http://www.anim8or.com/download/files/animv0981.zip
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 17, 2014, 03:37:50 pm: According to the message before mine (captiandrewi), I have the correct version, no?
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: captaindrewi on December 17, 2014, 04:04:43 pm: I now have the same version as you OWL and it works ok re caps and ends.
Sorry i cant offer any solution.its a puzzle.
Title: Extrude Problem
Post by: Owl on December 17, 2014, 06:12:11 pm: It works correctly about 1/3 the time. But remember as a newbie, I am trying all kinds of illogical parameters and decision paths.

Some symptoms that may help debug it:
1) Once the problem happens, it will do it every time. I have to close/restart the Anim8or.exe.
2) Some times it won't extrude on a line or spline. I can draw a line back in Z (0,0,z), and it won't do anything, But if I choose "Z" in BUILD>Extrude it works.
Again once it happens it will continue to happen until I close and reopen it.
3) Anim8or_1143 NEVER works, because double clicking on a point does not bring up a "close" option.

Well at least I can move on. Have maybe 5 hours working on this problem.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 17, 2014, 09:15:20 pm: I have not been able to replicate your fault in the same build version. My advice would be to run some more tests adhering to the following rules:

1) Keep the spline simple, no internal angles (ie. a square, rectangle, pentagon etc.)
2) Do not attempt to close the spline manually, there is no need to create a final point close to the first point. If creating a square, stop after the third line.
3) Double-click on a LINE element to open the path editor, not a node. In your screen cap you click the node, converting the line(s) adjoining it to curves (as evidenced by the green handles popping out the side). If done correctly, the selected line should show green while the path editor is open.

If you are able to trigger the fault under these conditions I would recommend re-downloading Anim8or and check your compatibility settings (run as Windows XP SP3 with desktop composition disabled). Also make sure you make no changes to any config or preference dialogs, keep it all default for the sake of the test.

Re extruding on a spline, I have always had best results creating both splines (the section and the extrusion path) in Front view, so the paths are expressed in the X-Y plane only. After creating the path in Front view you can swap to other views to pull it about in the Z-axis, but always run the extrusion process from the Front view *. Be sure to create the section around the centre of the screen as this is the point that is mapped to the path.

* This requirement may not be necessary in later versions, I have not tested it comprehensively. This was true in V0.97x and earlier.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 18, 2014, 06:08:00 am: Thank you for your thoughts. What you have described is "work arounds". Hopefully someone is going to look at the code and fix it.

What's up with the beta version, I don't find a "close"option ?
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 18, 2014, 06:30:27 am: I haven't provided work-arounds, I've suggested a process you can follow to try to isolate the cause of the bug, assuming that's what it is. The idea is to remove as many variables as possible and, if this proves stable, to individually introduce further complexity to the process until the issue recurs. The only way to determine the cause of this fault will be via a process of elimination. The fact that this fault has not previously been identified and does not seem to be replicable by others suggests it could be local to your instance and may not represent an issue in the code, I would again recommend re-loading the latest non-beta version of Anim8or to eliminate executable file corruption as the cause.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: captaindrewi on December 18, 2014, 08:58:28 am: Quote from: Owl on December 18, 2014, 06:08:00 am
What's up with the beta version, I don't find a "close"option ?
Yes that does appear to be an oversight
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 18, 2014, 11:35:40 am: Lets get This sorted once an for all ..... What windows version are you using, Graphics card, and are you using the 0.98 version or a development copy as I cannot replicate your problems either.

What does the splash screen say when anim8or boots up, and have you tried it in compatibility mode?
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 18, 2014, 12:50:19 pm: Windows 7 Home Premium, Service Pack 1
64 Bit Operating System
8GB of Ram
AMD Radeon HD 6530D Graphics

Slash Screen: 23-Jan-14
File name: animv0981 (also downloaded it again)

Does this mean that the last software revision change was in this exact area?
" identical to the original release dated November 30, 2014 with a fix for an spline extrusion/filling bug"

As a Newbie, I travel an unpredictable, illogical paths. As a software developer, the way I find problem is to methodically try unusual procedures and parameters.
I would also work backwards from the code looking for a failure path.

For example: There has been talk about how to close an object, yet it seems the software does that automatically ... when there is an extrusion which uses one or both "caps". It seems to me that's where the problem is, the software did not automatically "close".
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 18, 2014, 02:39:43 pm: Update: The problem happens on a new version downloaded from the home page. About once every three openings. Once it produces extrusions with no caps, it will do it continuously for all further extrusions. If I click/unclick the two cap buttons (rather than using the defaults from previous attempt) it works correctly.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: captaindrewi on December 18, 2014, 03:13:31 pm: Quote from: Owl on December 18, 2014, 06:08:00 am
What's up with the beta version, I don't find a "close"option ?
i have discovered if i click on another tool and return to the path ,then double clicking, another dialogue box opens with the closed option.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 18, 2014, 03:59:00 pm: Try this version, this is a stable 0.98 version (splash V0.98) I think you will find that the 0.981 is a development copy. I use this.

What version of open GL is running on that radeon? If you have 4.4, I had loads of problems with it so reverted back to 4.1.

Use this version in compatibility mode Windows XP SP3 , disable visual themes , and run as administrator

See what happens.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 18, 2014, 04:48:40 pm: Ok down loaded your attached version.
Set this version to: compatibility mode, Windows XP SP3 , disable visual themes and run as administrator.
Did not mess with GL, sorry I have lots of 2D or 3D vector graphics and can not open that can.

Opened the program 12 times and 4 times it failed, ie did not cap the extrusion.
As a software testor my style is to explore every possible variation. When ever the problem happens, I repeat that exact path, I have not found a repeatable pattern.
One time it did something else, it extruded the last line only. It disconnected that line from the other lines in the object.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 18, 2014, 05:45:26 pm: Made a video of it happening several times. But it is 9.5 megs and the limit is on the total. I deleted an earlier message but that didn't help.
Kreator, I PM'ed you on how to get it if you want.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 18, 2014, 06:46:33 pm: OpenGL just go to anim8ors Menu About/OpenGL info is it 4.1 or 4.4 ?
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 18, 2014, 08:06:04 pm: Open GL 4.1.11079
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 19, 2014, 01:10:37 am: Thanks for the Video, Have had a look, The first Extrusion went as planned, I would suggest on subsequent ones when you get to the Editor box where you close the path you actually rename the spline to path2, path3, and so on, see if that has an effect. It could be a conflict having multiple paths all with the same name? It might be better to take a logical path rather than the illogical?

Have you tried the lathing?
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 19, 2014, 02:14:22 am: Hmm, the path no longer exists after extruding (as opposed to lathing where the path remains) so it shouldn't make any difference renaming the path, but at this stage it's definitely worth a try. I have the same version (v0.98 23 Jan 14) and running OpenGL 4.2, and no matter what I do I can't replicate this fault. I have re-downloaded the executable and even running it with no compatibility settings at all (on W7 64bit), seems to be running without a hitch. I'll admit I'm at a complete loss, my suspicion is that the issue relates to Owl's particular local system setup but I've never seen this sort of error before and don't have anything else to go on.

I still have a copy of V0.97d (21 Sep 08), this version was used by many Anim8ors over several years without this fault being apparent (to my knowledge). If it wouldn't be in breach of any rules re distribution of the executable file I would be happy to forward a copy if you wanted to see if the error still happens on that version.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 19, 2014, 02:38:56 am: Tony: I have no problems either with extrusion am also at a loss to see why this is happening I cant replicate either and would assume there is as you say something locally wrong. I have versions going back to 0.95 and all do as they are supposed to.

Owls Video he emailed to me...
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 19, 2014, 02:52:11 am: Hi Kev. The video's coming up as private, are you able to make it available? Not that I think it will be very helpful, I've tried everything I can think of to replicate the fault.

EDIT: It's available now, cheers.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 19, 2014, 03:13:50 am: Owl, from your video there's still some things you are doing that I would consider to be 'wrong', though they may not be the cause of your issue (at least, when I do them I still don't get your fault). If the video above was created before my earlier post please disregard the following.

1) You are still creating a final point very close to (or trying to be co-located with) the first point. This is not necessary and will lead to a badly-formed corner as closing the curve does not merge the points. Closing the curve creates a line from the first to last point regardless of their proximity, so best to open the editor after creating the second-last point.

2) You appear to still be accessing the Path Editor by double-clicking one of these almost-in-the-same-place points rather than double-clicking the path. This could be affecting one of the point's properties (such as converting it to a curve).

3) Finally, I would always de-select 'Extendable' when closing a path. While this shouldn't make any difference, in the interests of determining this fault it would be worth taking this step.

Noteworthy in your video is that the second extrusion (at 1:36) works correctly, this suggests your earlier observation "Once it produces extrusions with no caps, it will do it continuously for all further extrusions" is not correct. While I'm no closer to replicating this fault, if you could try the same test as in the video above while observing the steps I've listed it might help us get a bit closer.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 19, 2014, 03:17:58 am: STOP PRESS: I have successfully replicated this fault by not observing the steps above. I suspect the issue relates to step 2 but I will run some more tests to be sure. Stand by...

No, the issue is step 1. If I try to place a final point on top of the first point I can cause the ends to not cap. The video below shows your fault happening in the first extrusion where I tried to drop a final point over the first point. For the second extrusion (that worked) I did not do this, once the fourth point was created (ie. the third line) I opened the editor and closed the path. This means my second path is an actual quadrilateral, whereas the first path actually has five points with two being very, very close together.

I don't know if this would be classified as a bug, in any case it can be easily avoided. The 'fault' also occurs in V0.97d so it's been there for some time, nothing to do with anything being broken in recent updates.

FINAL UPDATE:

This is not a bug or anything wrong with the code, it relates purely to the path being malformed. If the path crosses itself the extrusion will not cap, on some of your attempts to close the path manually your final point was 'outside' the path, so the path crossed itself when closed. Zoom in on the first/last point on one that failed and you will see what I mean. Sometimes your final point will have been slightly to the 'inside' of the first point, hence the fault appearing to be random. Avoid this doubling-up of points and your extrusions should run as expected.
Title: Re: Where can I start? Images to faces.
Post by: Owl on December 20, 2014, 10:26:11 am: I have added images to several faces before. The attached is a shoe box and a .jpg label.
Have tried for 3 hours of variations and combinations and can not put the label on the "front" of the box (actually left).
Can someone please help and send me back the box with very light blue sides and the label on the "front" (actually left).
Thank You,
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 20, 2014, 11:29:14 am: Sorry if the soundtrack is a bit off but I had my NAS drive running and the fan is a bit naff at the moment

I havn`t coloured it blue of stuck the label where you wanted but you could spend another few hours working it out! ;D

Lots of practice makes perfect!
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 20, 2014, 12:19:42 pm: Quote from: kreator on December 20, 2014, 11:29:14 am
... I haven't coloured it blue or stuck the label where you wanted but you could spend another few hours working it out! Lots of practice makes perfect!
Thank you very much Kreator,
There is a point where all the practice in the world won't make it happen, Steve's software is amazing but:
The necessity to follow a specific, undocumented process with no error messages or else the final function fails makes the learning curve impossible.
To my point, I followed the directions given me on "Reply #38 on: December 16, 2014, 12:08:54 pm". Three days later, with lots of effort on the part of forum members it was disclosed "if the path crosses itself the extrusion will not cap"
(Is there a place to put this information for everyone else)
Again thank you so much for your help, it is very much appreciated.
Happy Holidays
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 20, 2014, 09:29:41 pm: The best place to put this information, at least for the time being, is where it exists now: in this forum. It will be discoverable by any current and future Anim8ors with the same question. In the long run, a more comprehensive manual (perhaps that includes a 'tips' paragraph in each section) would be awesome, however it must be remembered that Anim8or is one man's project. If Steve was to spend the time required to re-write the manual (and I agree it does need re-writing) he would have to stop developing the code, and nobody wants that. It's great to see development on this project after a hiatus of a few years.

Having said that, it does not need to be Steve's job to write a new manual, in reality he would only need to approve it for publication on this site. I suspect he would appreciate somebody taking on this task, if anybody had the time and inclination. A new manual would benefit from the experience of 'newbies' being faced with what appears to be a steep learning curve with gaps in available resources, as well as those with several years experience with Anim8or. I would love to take this on but it just isn't possible with my other commitments at the moment, that's not a cop-out just a realistic appraisal.

Another great way to share your experiences with others would be to create a video tutorial. Many Anim8ors have done this, and many have learnt from them (myself included) and creating a tutorial is a really effective way of passing on your experiences. In my own case, what I know about Anim8or came from three main sources: 1) The manual. While it's definitely a bit light on detail it provides a general background of what can be done. 2) This forum. Those members who have been around for a while have had the benefit of reading the forum posts of many, many others, so they have been able to learn from others' experiences. Some members have also been amazing in their willingness to pass on knowledge (Kreator, Raxx and many others), their threads and posts are a priceless resource. 3) Experimentation. This was probably the most important one for me, and from your willingness to conduct tests to determine a result I suspect it will be for you too, Owl. I was lucky in that when I joined there was a regular series of 'contests' run by a couple of Anim8or sites. Getting involved in these and biting off WAY more than I could chew was a fantastic way to learn Anim8or, particularly with the help of the aforementioned members as well as many others.

Also remember, many long time users got on board when Anim8or was smaller and simpler than it is now, and as each new development was added it was only necessary to add that to the knowledge pool. This led to a shallower learning curve than that faced by today's newbies.

Finally, try not to get frustrated with Anim8or. It can be quirky and in some cases varies a bit from what could be called 'industry standard' but if you stick with it and take the time to learn its foibles you will be richly rewarded with not only great renders, animations or models but a real sense of achievement. Forum members are always willing to help but might not always have the time to unpick a particularly knotty problem and we can sometimes overlook the obvious, such as the path-crossing thing. Back in response #45 I mentioned about not creating that final point, if you had done so the issue would have been resolved earlier for you but to be honest I doubt I would have realised why this caused an error so it was probably a good thing you ignored it, since now this thread contains an actual resolution to the problem. :)

Anyway, happy holidays to you too and I hope you have a great time Anim8ing!
Title: Re: Where can I start? - Tips
Post by: Owl on December 21, 2014, 12:46:07 pm: Quote from: ENSONIQ5 on December 20, 2014, 09:29:41 pm
(1) The best place to put this information .... (2) create a video tutorial.

Great comments ENSONIQ
(1) The best place to put this information ....
The reason to put all these in one thread is to not have to read through the pages of posts, some with mistaken information, but instead one tight Thread of "Tips", as you said. One short post, with appropriate SUBJECT line would cover the "line must cross" rule, rather than only one line near the end of lots of post. BTW! It also fails for me on a snap to grid of last point over first point, then "close".

(2) create a video tutorial ....
May I respectfully suggest some tutorial rules be set up? For example to NOT use keyboard shortcuts in video, only slow visual mouse moves.
Thank You
Title: Re: Where can I start? - Materials to all Surfaces
Post by: Owl on December 21, 2014, 12:53:13 pm: Still looking for help on applying MATERIALS to all surfaces of an object.
It occasionally works, but after 3 hours of not finding the repeatable path I am reaching out for help.
To save time you can use the shoe box object and list the steps, hopefully no video is needed.
Thank You.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: thecolclough on December 21, 2014, 02:09:33 pm: Quote from: Owl on December 21, 2014, 12:46:07 pm
... For example to NOT use keyboard shortcuts in video, only slow visual mouse moves.
i'd suggest it would be ok to use a keyboard shortcut in this context, so long as a suitably clear-and-obvious caption was added to the video e.g. "Keyboard shortcut: [Key]" so viewers know what's going on. obviously it wouldn't help if the key shortcut is used without any indication as to what was pressed though!
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 21, 2014, 03:32:59 pm: OWL:Try downloading The little Book I wrote at http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php/topic,5034.0.html

May be of some help and with a few projects to follow.

A lot of Anim8or`s don`t actually use the keyboard shortcuts that are available, and prefer to click on the tools, unlike blender that is heavily reliant on Keyboard presses ;D
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: captaindrewi on December 21, 2014, 03:42:04 pm: [/youtube]
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 21, 2014, 09:30:43 pm: Quote from: thecolclough on December 21, 2014, 02:09:33 pm
... would be ok to use a keyboard shortcut in this context, so long as a suitably clear-and-obvious caption was added to the video ...
My opinion to your question is:
The biggest problem to my learning Anim8or is not knowing the mode and path to get to a function. [That's also how this tread started ... "Where can I start?"]
Unless everyone can use a tutorial and get the same results it is not so useful. This is why showing the mouse clicks are useful because it shows the decision tree from a known point, to the solution. This can't always happen for me with just a hot-key shortcut. Showing mouse movements for us visual learners (remember this is a visual program), looking to get the solution into muscle memory, is a necessity.
But different folks learn differently.
Thank You,
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 21, 2014, 09:33:19 pm: Quote from: kreator on December 21, 2014, 03:32:59 pm
A lot of Anim8or`s don`t actually use the keyboard shortcuts that are available, and prefer to click on the tools, unlike blender that is heavily reliant on Keyboard presses ;D

Wait...there's keyboard shortcuts?? Just kidding, I am aware of them but I am one of those who prefers to use the mouse/buttons/menus. No reason, just habit really.

Regarding rules for tutorials, while I understand the sentiment it really shouldn't be necessary. A video tutorial should not skip anything and should explain every step, so a viewer can follow along and have the identical experience. Ideally it should include either a voice-track or subtitles, preferably both. Best practice would be to have a non-Anim8or-savvy assistant work through the tutorial as a check before it was published anywhere, but remember that this is a forum of enthusiasts, not professional communicators. My advice would be to show the community how it should be done!
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 21, 2014, 10:19:36 pm: Quote from: captaindrewi on December 21, 2014, 03:42:04 pm
Youtube on material on 4 faces.

Great video, the missing parts for Newbies, FIRST ... it would be nice to start from where the program opens.
Then the video would answer these questions:
1) Where did the Materials menu come from?
2) Why Would you center the cube?
3) How did it get from "Front" to "Perspective" view?
4) Why is it necessary to increase the Material's gray scale?
5) It didn't seem necessary to be in "flat shaded". "smooth shaded", the opening default, seems to work the same.
6) Why go back to front face, seems you can click on the face from perspective view?
7) Why use UV, just select the a different face image of each face, lot less steps, then select material and "Apply"?
8 )But why does it only work on a few of the faces, even though: you chose the face, it turned yellow and you hit "Apply" for each face?
9) Why in "materials" is diffuse chosen for the face image?
10 You chose "arc rotate" mode, but why does: World, Object, Screen Coordinates buttons make no difference?

These are not questions to answer, but show the complexities that a Newbie has to face.

Back to my question, How do I apply light blue to every face with only one Materials "Apply" mouse click.
I tried it with the simple box, same results, Some time it works and some time not!!

THANK YOU!
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: jwalt on December 21, 2014, 11:20:09 pm: Quote from: Owl on December 21, 2014, 10:19:36 pm

These are not questions to answer, but show the complexities that a Newbie has to face.

Back to my question, How do I apply light blue to every face with only one Materials "Apply" mouse click.
I tried it with the simple box, same results, Some time it works and some time not!!

THANK YOU!

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o756/jwalt10705/tut1_zpsa7f33d68.jpg)

Sorry for the jpg image.

1 Select object point edit
2 Select face select
3 Select drag select and draw a box around the cube (selects all faces)
4 Set up the color material you want and Apply

Selecting individual faces for a single application of material requires left click select for initial surface, followed by right clicks for additional selections. If you make a mistake, alt-right click will deselect the last selection. Note if you are using some of the later builds, it may well work differently.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 22, 2014, 07:48:55 am: Thank You jwalt,

The reason I am asking how to apply light blue to every face with only one Materials "Apply" mouse click, is small features can quickly make LOTS of faces and it would be very time consuming to apply to every face. Usually if you select the entire object using the dashed-line "drag-select", from any view, it will select the entire object and thus apply the material to the entire object. But I have had it fail often.

Also "front/back" doesn't seem to work on an uncapped extrusion.

Nice to have you contribute as a Newbie. I have spent over 100 hours learning to draw a pallet and a shoe box and I am an experienced 3D user in many other programs for many years. The difficulty has been identifying where you are wrt modes and functions, because at each point other features or functions may not work or work differently.

I spent several hours going to a specific points in the program's structure and from there trying every single function/feature to see which work and how it worked. The problem has been that I often came across apparently same paths that worked differently on apparently same objects. A couple of those are in my questions in Reply#85. I will add those to this thread as the tolerance for my annoyance allow ???

Thank You
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 22, 2014, 02:30:12 pm: Quote from: Owl on December 22, 2014, 07:48:55 am
Thank You jwalt,

I have spent over 100 hours learning to draw a pallet and a shoe box and I am an experienced 3D user in many other programs for many years.

I`m intrigued!... what other 3d Programs have you used?

Anim8or is regarded as the most simplest of 3D programs and is specifically aimed at new users to the scene. The Pallet took me just under 5 minutes to construct and a couple of minutes to do the texturing. Your Shoebox took a little longer to texture as the Normals were reversed , as you had used a combination of Quads and Tri`s.
Title: Re: Where can I start? - another failure-to-cap mode for extrusion
Post by: Owl on December 22, 2014, 03:44:26 pm: Here is another failure-to-cap mode for extrusion. Open the Anim8or, draw an N-gon, Build>Extrude>X>Cap both>Ok
See the video. Every time I open the program it will fail to cap, if not the first time, then it will fail one or more times within the next twenty tries.

Thank You,
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 22, 2014, 05:55:04 pm: Quote from: kreator on December 22, 2014, 02:30:12 pm
Quote from: Owl on December 22, 2014, 07:48:55 am
kreator:
... Your Shoebox took a little longer to texture as the Normals were reversed , as you had used a combination of Quads and Tri`s. ...
The Quads and Tri's were assigned automatically by the extrusion. Does this explain why material is not always assigned to ALL faces with a "select all" function?

The reason it has taken so long is documented here and an example in the last email. I set down to draw an object with some extrusions and they were randomly failing, the sane as with the applying of materials. After 2 hours of no progress, I stopped for a break. (They were complex shapes, the 5 point V-gon was just for illustrations)
Thanks
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 22, 2014, 09:38:26 pm: Quote from: Owl on December 22, 2014, 07:48:55 am
The reason I am asking how to apply light blue to every face with only one Materials "Apply" mouse click, is small features can quickly make LOTS of faces and it would be very time consuming to apply to every face. Usually if you select the entire object using the dashed-line "drag-select", from any view, it will select the entire object and thus apply the material to the entire object. But I have had it fail often.

Sorry, I think I might be missing something. You should be able to click on an object (in object-select mode, ie. with the arrow at the top-left of the menu selected), select a material and click Apply. That will apply that material to the entire object, all faces, and (I believe though I could be wrong here) will reset any face UV coordinates to the default. Is this not working for you?

Also, from your video it appears you have screen rendering issues. Does it look like this live or is it an issue with your screen capture? If it looks like this at your end you will need to adjust your compatibility settings.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 22, 2014, 09:48:20 pm: Quote from: ENSONIQ5 on December 22, 2014, 09:38:26 pm
Quote from: Owl on December 22, 2014, 07:48:55 am
The reason I am asking how to apply light blue to every face with only one Materials "Apply" mouse click, is small features can quickly make LOTS of faces and it would be very time consuming to apply to every face. Usually if you select the entire object using the dashed-line "drag-select", from any view, it will select the entire object and thus apply the material to the entire object. But I have had it fail often.

.... Is this not working for you? ....Also, from your video it appears you have screen rendering issues. ...

It works sometimes and fails to get all the faces some times!

While trying to get the video file size down, I over did it. Screen is perfect.
Thanks
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 23, 2014, 01:20:38 am: Quote from: Owl on December 22, 2014, 09:48:20 pm
It works sometimes and fails to get all the faces some times!

Just to be absolutely clear, I'm not talking about drag-selecting all faces in point-edit mode, I'm talking about clicking on the object in object-select mode and then applying the material. Drag-selecting faces in point-edit mode, particularly in perspective view, can result in some faces not being selected, usually those very close to the camera.

Also, I'm not able to replicate your issue with extruding N-gons. After trying everything I could think of to cause it to fail, they extrude perfectly every time.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 23, 2014, 07:35:12 am: Quote from: ENSONIQ5 on December 23, 2014, 01:20:38 am
1) ... about clicking on the object in object-select mode and then applying the material...
2) ... not able to replicate your issue with extruding N-gons ..

1) That failed on the cube a few times.
2) Sorry about that. I always started the test with starting the program and then the minimum number of other steps. It sometimes took 20 tries to get a failure. (Feels like playing the Vegas slots) Sometime it did it on first try and then several times in a row.
Thank you
Title: Re: Where can I start? - Extruding along a line
Post by: Owl on December 23, 2014, 07:48:54 am: If you extrude a shape along an axis, and then you extrude that shape along a line drawn path along that same axis, it does not produce the same results.

After several hours of research and experiments, I believe these are the rules of extruding a shape along a path. { BUILD>Extrude>Path }

BASIC
1) Shape must always be in FRONT view.
2) Shape location with-respect-to (wrt) path doesn't matter.
3) Path can be in any view.
4) Length parameter for extrude doesn't matter, it will extrude the length of the path.
5) For N-Gon shapes the extrusion will be located in the center of the shape.

DETAILS
5) If you choose the shape from any other view, such as perspective, the extrusion will be as seen from the FRONT view.

SURPRISES
6) An extrusion of a spline drawn shape, extruded along a spline path, will be two or more shapes, will be different lengths and in an unknown (by me) location.
7) An extrusion of a spline shape along a straight line path will be in an unknown (by me) location.
If you extrude a shape along an axis, and then you extrude that shape along a line drawn path along that same axis, it does not produce the same results.

The above gives me enough information to have predictable results.
BTW even though the "Shape must always be in FRONT view" is a unique requirement, combined with "Shape location with-respect-to (wrt) path doesn't matter" ... greatly simplifies the usual method of extrusion alone a line. I like it.
Thank You,
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 23, 2014, 10:01:49 pm: When extruding along a path, you MUST consider the mathematical origin of the shape, which by default will always be located at the centre of the bold grid crosshairs bisecting your workspace. This is the point that will be traced along the path, so if this point is not centred within the shape and is in fact nowhere near the shape (eg. if you have created your shape in the top left of your workspace) the final extrusion may not end up where you intended (but always predictably, the offset will be based on the location of your shape's origin point relative to the shape itself). The generated mesh may also not look like you would expect, in fact if the offset is significant and the path quite convoluted the resulting mesh can look nothing like you intended.

This is not an issue with axis extrusion since there is no path location to be accounted for, the extrusion can just extend into the chosen axis dimension... hence the difference you have encountered. Always create your shape to be path-extruded around the centre crosshairs, if this is difficult due to other meshes on the screen just create a new Object to work in (I usually create an Object called "Workbench" in which to build things, cutting and pasting into the main Object as required or into other Objects that will be added as Elements in a Scene).

NOTE: In the above I have capitalised Objects, meaning 'work spaces' created in Object mode, to distinguish them from meshes such as extrusions, lathes etc.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 23, 2014, 10:57:13 pm: We must be talking about two different things.
Try putting a Bunch on N-Gons all around the FRONT VIEW.
Put in one spline path, then extrude each of the shapes down the same path. They all extrude in the same place independent of where the shape is, they all extrude down the path.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 23, 2014, 11:59:11 pm: I am talking specifically about shapes you create with splines. N-Gons have their origin point located at the N-gon's centre, so yes, they all map directly to the path and all is well. If you try it with a random shape created from lines however you will see what I mean. Where the mesh ends up is also dependent on the view within which you created the extrusion path. Try creating two paths, one in Top view and another in Left view, and map the same shape to both. You will notice that the meshes rotate differently since each path has a different X,Y,Z frame of reference. I should add that this is with the coordinate system set to screen coords, I have not experimented with changing this to see if it has an effect on path extrusions (but will do so *).

There will still be a difference between axis-extrusion and path-extrusion for N-gons however, since the latter will still map the N-gon's origin to the path, so the mesh won't be in the same place as if it was axis-extruded.

EDIT: * Nah, not a good idea. Changing the coordinate structure forces spline creation to adhere to the left/middle/right mouse button thing (each relating to a difference axis) so not practical for drawing paths.
Title: Re: Where can I start? - Object/Axis ^O
Post by: Owl on December 24, 2014, 09:36:14 am: Is there any documentation or tutorials on: Object/Axis ^O

Also, I can't find the three coordinate systems choices ever doing anything. They seem like a necessary tool.
I'd like to move and move about the selection points.
Thank You.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 29, 2014, 11:31:06 am: Here is what you should be doing...

This forms the basis of drawing anything in 3d you don`t need to draw everything with splines or such. No other program that can do this, that I know of.

You can easily create anything from just this method.

Quote
I`m intrigued!... what other 3d Programs have you used?
You didn`t answer my question in a previous post
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Owl on December 29, 2014, 12:23:04 pm: Thank you,
PS: Sent you a PM on your ask about my experience.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: nemyax on December 29, 2014, 12:42:41 pm: Quote from: kreator on December 29, 2014, 11:31:06 am
No other program that can do this, that I know of.
Blender. Ctrl+click.

Quote from: kreator on December 29, 2014, 11:31:06 am
You can easily create anything from just this method.
Nope. Not easily, anyway.
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: kreator on December 29, 2014, 01:03:45 pm: Quote from: nemyax on December 29, 2014, 12:42:41 pm
Quote from: kreator on December 29, 2014, 11:31:06 am
No other program that can do this, that I know of.

Blender. Ctrl+click.

When did that happen? Blender is a totally different can of worms!

Quote from: kreator on December 29, 2014, 11:31:06 am
You can easily create anything from just this method.
Nope. Not easily, anyway.

Then you are missing something!
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: nemyax on December 29, 2014, 01:29:24 pm: Quote from: kreator on December 29, 2014, 01:03:45 pm
When did that happen?
Around 1995, in the first version. Today it lets you extend a selected edge multiple times with a series of Ctrl-clicks.

Quote from: kreator on December 29, 2014, 01:03:45 pm
Then you are missing something!
What am I missing?
Title: Re: Where can I start?
Post by: Raxx on December 29, 2014, 01:54:40 pm: Alright, this topic is starting to go all over the place, so I'm locking it. Please start a new topic if you have a new issue or concern.