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[Steve]

The keys could be still be set in the final design. The big thing now that needs work is keeping IK effectors' positions locked between keys and using IK to supply the intermediate values. The idea is that you can adjust individual joints in the middle of the chain to refine the motion while still using the overall IK behavior. I'm not exactly sure what will work best yet.

[daniel99]

I found I can scale the handles when I had the handles too big for one of my figures. But the capability to key the bones without moving the selected IK chain is a damn good idea, johnar. I usually move it a bit. But would be practical if we could have in the IK Chain Scene Editor the possibility to Add Key (next to the "Lock Position"), same as in Key Value Editor for the bones.

But for the moment, I can deal with that with no problem. The biggest update I'm waiting for is the possibility to use Forward and Inverse Kinematics. So, I can't wait to try the new build. Steve is working to find a solution for the end-effectors, and that would be awesome for animating walks and organic motion.

[nemyax]

I'm not exactly sure what will work best yet.

Pole vector?

[johnar]

steve
 Scaling and moving the IK handle makes things a lot easier.
 Thanks for the tip. 

[ENSONIQ5]

I loaded 1247 this evening and have had a play with IK, so far everything is working as it should (though I haven't tested everything yet).  I have some chains of 12+ bones, no problem, but I did have a crash when I attempted to chain 20+ bones (I will attempt to recreate the fault).  The only other thing I've found, and I'm not sure it's a bug (could be my local settings) but when 'playing' a sequence to check motion it isn't possible to stop the playback after about 20 or 30 frames.  Attempting to stop it results in the circling cursor and the window 'whiting out', and nothing can be clicked.  The playback continues to the end, once it completes everything comes good.

I have some experience with Carrara's IK setup so I thought it might be beneficial to provide a comparison.  Anim8or's IK is at least as powerful and simple to use as Carrara's, which is a pretty amazing achievement Steve since that package has had $$$ worth of development.  The only advantage with Carrara's system over Anim8or's that I can detect is that IK can be applied to a boneless object hierarchy, ie. bones are not required.  The equivalent would be the ability to set the joint type when setting an object element as the child of another object element in Scene mode, with no Figure required, and the setting of IK chains across these elements.  This allows for some more complex joints, such as sliders (like hydraulic rams).  Truthfully, it's a minor advantage that would seem (from my awestruck perspective) to require an awful lot of work that I don't think would be worth it to be honest.  There's other ways to achieve the same effect with the existing setup.

One big advantage with Anim8or's system is the ability to lock effectors in Scene mode.  I haven't played with this (yet) but certainly plan to, its positive impact on the ability to create realistic walking action cannot be overstated!

I'm adding IK to an existing project (T-Rex skeleton) and hope to have something to show for it soon, and I'll let you know if I find anything that doesn't work as expected.  This is seriously the coolest thing to happen to Anim8or in ages, can't thank you enough Steve!

[Steve]

I just posted build 1250 with some things that might be of interest   I haven't completed locking of more than one IK end effector yet, but I'm working on it.

daniel99: I think I've fixed your crash problem. At least I fixed something similar to it. Please check out the build when you get a chance, and also see if your snapping back bug is fixed.

johnar: "IK keys should be selected when they are created." Should do this now   Also Key Selected Bones (hot key 'k') now should work. When you slick on an IK handle it automatically selects all bones, but doesn't add keys unless you move the mouse. Then you can use the 'k' hot key to key them as they are. I also added Morph Targets so "Key Selected Bones" is now "Key Selected Bones And Morph Targets".  I also add entries in the track window for all joints and morph targets even if they don't have any keys set.

[daniel99]

Steve: Oh,goody-goody! Let's see!

[thecolclough]

I also add entries in the track window for all joints and morph targets even if they don't have any keys set.

this will definitely be useful in some contexts, but i know i've had other cases where it's been useful not to have these entries showing - would it be possible to make this feature user-toggle-able?

[johnar]

would it be possible to make this feature user-toggle-able?

I agree with thecolclough that the timetrack entries can become way to long, and there does need to be a way to control this. Has been on my mind for quite some time.
  Perhaps a 'menu folder' arrangement?, like in object and editor modes.
  The folders show n the timetrack, with the little plus signs for opening and closing. (collapsing) They could open and close directly above/below each other, so as not to take up more room in the the actual timetrack.
 morph targets could have a 'menu folder' of there own, inside the folder of the relevant folder.
  One long time wishlist thing of mine is the ability to 'drag' the timetrack entries up and down in the left hand colum of the timetrack. Often the morphs are at the bottom or top of the list, and the bones are at the other end, which can be a lot of scrolling up and down. It would be nice if the user could  drag the essential entries closer together. Closer to the action, so to speak.
 If it was a 'dragable, menu folder' type arrangement, it might actually work quite well. ??
  But, of course, this is not an IK thing, and this is the IK thread, and i've rattled on long enough. 

 Now for why i originally came to post, lol.
 Steve  Latest build. MAGIC. Working perfectly. This is GREAT!!
You've done it to me on my birthday again, bless you steve. Thanks.

[ENSONIQ5]

Could be intentional but I'll mention this anyway, if IK is selected in Scene mode the IK widgets associated with a figure element actually render as solid cubes (build 1250).  Deselecting IK stops them being rendered so all good but I would assume they should be a non-rendering item.

[johnar]

 Funny thing you mentioned that ENSONIQ5. I've just posted another wee clip of froyd with his things showing. http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php/topic,5051.30.html
 It's actually quite cool being able to render them as well.  The camera has always been 'renderable' as well, so maybe it is intentional?
 Good to see you on board, by the way.

 steve The new way of keying the IK chains has improved animating immensely. It's so much faster, and easy to use. That goes for keying the morphs as well. Its just absolutely super.
 Animating now, already, is soooooooo much easier.
 Hats off to you sir. Its a breakthrough!
 Thank you, thank you, thank you.
 

[daniel99]

ENSONIQ5: I've noticed that a while ago. If deactivated, the IK controllers won't render. But being renderable, sometimes could be useful. So that's great!

[Steve]

johnar: "Perhaps a 'menu folder' arrangement?" (for the Time Track). I've been thinking about something like this for a while, too. There are several ways for it to work. I was thinking about additional menu commands to do things like group selected keys, etc. But working like the menu folders do is more consistent and probably simpler to implement. And Happy Birthday.

ENSONIQ5: Oops! I guess I haven't made any renders with IK tools. I don't think that they should render. This is trivial to fix. --- but daniel99 also has a point.

[daniel99]

Steve My personal opinion:It is useful to have the IK controllers renderable. Sometimes, for a presentation, demo or for showing/explaining to the clients can be very useful. And just turning the IK off when final rendering.
Also, Steve... Let's say I have to render the cat, and I have a separate layer for the fur. In figure mode, I add the body mesh layer and the fur layer and rig them both to the bones. I hide the fur, to be able to animate faster only the body mesh. But in the scene mode, the fur still shows. Can you make it not to show the hidden layers?
When I want to render, I simply go back in figure mode, and Shift+H the fur layer, and it should show in scene mode.

Same thing when I have a hipoly mesh. I could rig the Hipoly and the LowPoly mesh. When I make the animation, I hide the Hipoly, and work with Lowpoly. When rendering, Show the HiPoly Mesh.

The second point I wanna make. Let's say I made an animation, and I click the figure, selecting all the layers. Unfortunately, I can not copy all the layers in the figure at once. This can be useful. And I remember some old build had that feature. If I have the same figure in two scenes, and I simply want to copy the keyframes from first scene FigureA to second scene FigureA ?

[johnar]

Hi steve
Ik is working really, really well.
 Thanks so much.

1 thing.
When i first add a figure to scene mode and highlight the IK buttons, the ik handles or boxes wont show. Not until i've gone into figure mode, then back to scene mode. Then the handles/boxes are showing and can have visibility turned off and on  just as it does in sequence and figure modes. (perfectly).

 The full body IK is interesting, i like the idea, and think it could be a great thing, especially once you've solved how to get those end effectors to lock, and stay, in position.
  I know you're still working on that.
 One experiment involved locking froyds left foot to the ground. Then, in front view, grabbing his forearm and dragging him gently back and forth along the x axis. (full body ik) I notice the foot tries to stay in place, but then moves away with the dotted line showing it is out of range.
 From a laymens point of view, it makes me think, if that foot is locked there, then it should stay right there 'regardless of all else'.
 I have no real idea of how you make this magical thing work, but it's like, that locked foot position needs to be 'absolutely unmovable by anything else', until it is unlocked.
 If that can happen, she'll be golden.
 Good luck with this steve. I'm sure with the occasional 'eureka' moment, and your hours and hours of hard work, she'll get there.
 Anim8or 4eva