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[lizeal93]

i'm not bashing lightwave. heck i use 3ds max. i'm just pointing out that anim8or is free and has functions that the expensive programs do not. so (insert what xalener said here.)

i apologize if someone took offense at my comments.

[sbenator]

And IK

[spicy]

Anim8or may be a little primitive but its easy interface and controls are useful for CGI Begginers. People who use anim8or produce really good results. I bet steve's thinking of lots of new and exciting features right now.

[BenCole]

Animator has, in my opinion, one of the best vertex modelling engines of any 3D animation package, and puts many professional packages to shame.  In fact, many animators who work with Maya, 3DS Max, Carrara etc. create their wireframes in Animator and export them, myself included.

I just wanted to point out that this statement is completely false, not to be mean, but to make sure the person asking the question gets a good answer.

Anim8or is a great beginner application, undoubtedly, but it simply can't be compared to any of the professional applications out there.

To say that many, or even ANY, professional animators use anim8or in their workflow is a complete joke.

Anim8or helped me start in 3D and now my main app is 3ds max. I still open anim8or from time to time for the fun of it, but have found it very clunky and slow to work with in comparison.

To answer your question if anim8or is "too primitive" I would say no. It's perfect for it's intention - being a great, free, beginner app to get people interested and participating in this form of art. It's intention is not to be a professional application found in studios so there really isn't any reason to compare it to the apps that are... yet.

[xalener]

Nope. I've used a couple modelers and I always go back to anim8or.

[Arik_the_Red]

BenCole, how can you possibly say that statement is false?  Firstly, it states, "in my opinion" about the writer's view of anim8or... and lastly, unless you can actually speak with knowledgw otherwise,  it may very well be possible that many animators using high ends programs DO use anim8or  for wireframes... as a matter of "fact," that is very much true... go to "AnimAnon" and "Cg-Nation" both have people who use high end programs for much of their work, but settle for using anim8or for their object-forming.  I know of a number of users of Carrara, 3DS-Max, and Lightwave who also use anim8or for their design work. And the things they create are quite spectacular.

And as for the one quoted.. Ensoniq is VERY familiar with the works of quite a few who do in fact use anim8or as well as those higher end programs.  There are a number of works in AnimAnon's competitions that were created in just that way - using anim8or for the modelling, and then moving on to Carrara, etc., to implement some of the higher end work.  

[BenCole]

Nope. I've used a couple modelers and I always go back to anim8or.

To be blunt, you're wrong. You can go back to anim8or, that's fine. The point is it can NOT be compared to ANY professional app, or even blender when it comes to production-level workflow and results.

BenCole, how can you possibly say that statement is false?  Firstly, it states, "in my opinion" about the writer's view of anim8or... and lastly, unless you can actually speak with knowledgw otherwise,  it may very well be possible that many animators using high ends programs DO use anim8or  for wireframes... as a matter of "fact," that is very much true... go to "AnimAnon" and "Cg-Nation" both have people who use high end programs for much of their work, but settle for using anim8or for their object-forming.  I know of a number of users of Carrara, 3DS-Max, and Lightwave who also use anim8or for their design work. And the things they create are quite spectacular. 

Ok, I accept that it is his opinion, I am simply stating that it is unarguably wrong.
I do speak "with knowledge" as I used anim8or for years, and have used 3ds max for years.  I was an anim8or fanboy for a long time, i still am, I am just trying to make sure the facts are straight in this thread.

As far as you saying there are people who use "high end" programs alongside anim8or - I am sure there are. The argument is about how anim8or doesn't compare to these "high end programs". They can use whatever they want. As far as professionals go, you will not see this. The listed websites are not new to me.
Just trust me, anim8or does not have a place in the workflow of professionals in the industry.

You guys literally might as well be trying to argue that the world is flat. Anim8or is a great program, but you need to be honest that it's not even in the same league as professional apps. I mean, how could it be? One man created anim8or, a corporation with zillions of dollars and a huge programming team is creating the other apps. There is no argument to be made for your guys' side, because it's the obvious truth that anim8or cannot be compared to these apps.

[Tanzim]

hey, just a question, when you guys say professional, do you mean someone that's really good at what they do, or the correct term of someone who gets paid consistently for what they do (e.g. an animator on a 1 year contract with a company etc)

[Arik_the_Red]

Ensoniq's comment had nothing to do with "professionals" and the tools they do or do not use. It had to do with people using anim8or along with "professional packages" such as 3ds-Max, Lightwave, and Maya. 

As for "professionals" and what they use, that would require knowing a fair number "professionals" in order to speak for them. I know a "professional" who has a storefront across the street from where I live. He does some very nice 3D animation work using only Blender... and nothing else. He says he would never purchase any 3D-CG software since Blender handles all his needs quite nicely. But then, Blender does things that Anim8or cannot, just as Anim8or has some advantages in ease of model-building and such.

edit - Here's a web-link to the Blender guy's site, where he's put up some basic tests of things done with Blender... a lot of "soft material" work - http://blender.dothelp.net/

[headwax]

Hah

I love a good old fashioned difference of opinion.

Me, I've only been modelling for two years this march, using anim8or mostly. Mind you, I sepnd a few hours a day using the thing. Apart from that I've been using Carrara and Hexagon for about six months but come back to anim8or because it is so well designed.

Ease of use comes with simplicity. Ease of use gives enjoyment. And enjoyment is what makes people stick with 3d work.

The only thing I miss on the modelling side in anim8or is: the ability to extract around a selection of edges in a few different ways (no, not the bevel tool). Having a 'magnet tool, or soft select. And the ability to mirror model.

Even not having boolean methods doesn't seem a great disadvantage.

If you check out the plugins people have been developing I think that the second issue(s) have been addressed. Of course steve is doing the mirror thing as we speak.

Anim8or is a great mesh modeller because it is so well designed. There's no real argument otherwise, except, of course, from those who haven't used it to it's full potential.

I guess people feel guilty that they didn't pay money for anim8or and off set that guilt by "dissing" it.

And I'm also afraid Ben Cole's statements are a prime example of a series of  'non sequitur',  designed to bamboozle an audience but in no way represent a logical nor progressive argument.

cheers for now

[$imon]

I guess I'll add my two cents to this debate :p since i have been using anim8or for a long time & 3ds max for a long time.

The models that I produce with anim8or and with 3ds max are of no different quality, a mesh is a mesh, and the points are located in the same place. Though it takes me much longer to produce these meshes in anim8or than it does for me to use 3ds max. That is not because i  have more experience in max (ive used anim8or for around 4 years before i went to max) but mainly because of the modeling tools used. After for example a bevel operation, i have quite some cleaning up to do on the model, whereas in 3ds max it usually comes out clean.

This does not make anim8or a bad modeler, in fact it is a very good modeler, but with the limited amount of modeling tools and relative slow speed in modeling from what i have experienced, it is not as good of a modeler as 3d studio max.


The term 'professional' can be seen quite broad. I think what Ben Cole tries to say, is that people that work at the top of the 3d industry; not just pixar but the whole range of top 3d companies, for animation or stills, do not use anim8or in their production. It might be that someone makes money selling images produced by anim8or, or models made in anim8or, would they be called a professional? yes they would, since it would be their profession.

I have scoped around the CGtalk forums for a Loooong time now, and I know the quality of work produced there, in my mind, if one says 'professional 3d modeler', i have to think about that forum. And to be honest, I havent seen many people using anim8or there (in fact, the ones i can remember are me and some other users from this community)

I'm not saying all of this to diss anim8or, but mainly because I don't want to give people false illusions. I remember when I was starting out with 3d, the bar was not set too high for me, since i didnt know cgtalk or came in contact with any really good 3d, because of this I didn't improve too fast.
For me that didnt matter, since I had fun, and that is what I do 3d for, but for people that see career oppertunities it is good if they see the world as it is. And that is that anim8or is a very good program to start your work in, its free, easy to use and quite advanced, but to create the best 3d the quickest, a high end program will probably be more in place.


I hope you all know I love anim8or, and this post isnt against anim8or! you know I'm still using it too =) and I love it.

[BenCole]

And I'm also afraid Ben Cole's statements are a prime example of a series of  'non sequitur',  designed to bamboozle an audience but in no way represent a logical nor progressive argument.

Just because my opinion is different from the general community's doesn't mean I am trying to... "bamboozle" you guys. Like I said in my first post here, I am simply trying to make sure the guy who started this thread gets the best answer to his question. I would say trying to dismiss someone's entire argument as a "bamboozle" is the real bamboozle here. Cool word.

If you are trying to imply I have not used anim8or to it's full potential so I can't talk, I would completely disagree. I was an active member of the community here over half a decade ago and used this program exclusively for years with many different builds before I even touched another application.

I have scoped around the CGtalk forums for a Loooong time now, and I know the quality of work produced there, in my mind, if one says 'professional 3d modeler', i have to think about that forum.

I thought it was obvious this is what I meant when I say 'professional' , ha

Guys, guys guys... The statements I disagreed with were the ones saying anim8or or any part of anim8or was competitive in one way or another to a professional app. That is ridiculous, and I pointed that out. Any other points about who uses anim8or along side a pro app like this mean nothing. I am sure there are people who do, that's their call.

I hope that clears some things up. I'm not bashing anim8or, it is BETTER than for what it is intended for, it is the program that got me into 3d in the first place. I just need to make sure you guys don't actually think it is competitive with professional apps and that professionals use it for commercial projects. That's all.



Disclaimer: The above statements contain actual opinions and represent actual logical or progressive arguments. They in no way intend to bamboozle the general public. And lol @ headwax.

[ENSONIQ5]

BenCole:  Just a friendly word of advice, be careful calling someone's opinion "completely false".  This is a friendly forum, and I am a gentle soul, but such inflamatory remarks have led to pages and pages of vitriol in other, less moderated forums.  I can also assure you that the second sentence in the section you highlighted is absolutely correct, as I am acquainted with such non-professional, multi-package-using animators, both in person and via the web.

I did not say, or mean to imply, that professional animators used Anim8or as a modeller (I have no information either way).  My point, in direct response to the OP's position that Anim8or is "too simple" and the fact that the OP couldn't see how it could be used to contruct complex models, was that many animators who had access to off-the-shelf software packages continue to use Anim8or's modeller, as one more tool in their kit.

I personally use Anim8or (18 months) and Carrara (6 months), and have been using Corel Dream3D (non animation modeller/renderer) for many years.  In terms of the total package, I absolutely agree that Anim8or cannot be compared to either of those other two packages, in terms of ability, functionality, Windows integration, network support, speed or workflow.  However, I maintain that Anim8or has, in some cases, superior functionality over certain comparable aspects of these, and other, "professional" packages, particularly in terms of modelling, figure building and animation sequencing.  It reminds me a bit of the old anecdote about NASA spending squillions of dollars designing pens that astronauts could use in zero G environments, with complex engineering including pressure capsules to force the ink out.  Russian cosmonauts, on the other hand, used a much simpler and cheaper alternative.  The pencil.

It was never my intention to imply that Anim8or could do everything you ever wanted from an animation package, rather it was simply to encourage the OP to investigate it's functionality for him- or herself.  The Gallery section at left is testament to Anim8or's abilities, and it is worth remembering that Anim8or is very much a work in progress.  Although it is being built by one man, I think I could reasonably presume that the input and support of the Anim8or community has been an important factor in this project evolving from one man's piece of coding to a stable and functional 3D modeller/animator/renderer, and will continue to do so until Anim8or improves to the point that it becomes "professional" itself, sold alongside 3DS Max, Carrara, Maya etc.

I think the issue here revolves around my use (or possibly misuse) of the word "professional".  I only applied that term to software packages that are made available for sale, as distinct from those available as free downloads, and never to the animators themselves.  In fact, reading back through this thread, we all pretty much agree, and no argument really exists.  Anim8or is great for what it is, and can be used to construct 3D models to the highest standard, but it cannot (and therefore should not) be compared to bought packages, when considered as a whole.  I will continue to use Anim8or as a modeller, and if it had the ability to export figures and sequences I would use it for that as well, because frankly, Carrara falls short in those regards (with the exception of IK.  Any chance of that soon Steve?).

[Raxx]

I just need to make sure you guys don't actually think it is competitive with professional apps and that professionals use it for commercial projects. That's all.

Where's this need coming from? I think inspiration and motivation can take anyone anywhere with anything.

This topic has run its course and everyone has made good points. Keeping it healthy and locking it up.